You guys are crazy. I didn't fall asleep last night until 3am despite my 8oclock test because this movie is so thought provoking. It proves the futility of the pursuit of fundamental truth through all mediums, whether it be math (Cantor), Logic (godel/turin), physics/science(boltzman), and theoligy (cantor). These are some of the brightest people humanity has ever seen and all them were driven to suicide when they confronted the paradoxs that you, me and the rest of the world ignore out of fear of intrapersonal intellectual dissonance. Non of them succeeded in resolving the paradoxes they observed, only legitimizing them. Here are some unexplicit implications of this movie. Science/math is a religion. According Cantor it is impossible to define or verify infinity. This means that all the internally logical conclusions made in calculus and non euclidean geometry are based on an unverifiable uncomprehendable truth, infinity. This is much like the fact that the internally logical conclusions of religion are based on the unverifiable uncomprehendable truth of the existence god. This means that saying the big bang was the beginning of the universe(manifestation of infinity principle) is equally "unscientific" as positing divine creation of the universe (manifestation of god principle). Here is the scary part, even if infinity was verifiable and we could approach it in an experimental scientific fashion it still could only be regarded as practical truth as opposed to absolute truth. This is because science itself is flawed, science, a methodical application of logic to experience, cant be held as truth either! Godel proved that certain logical statements will be false and that it will be impossible to tell which ones they are. While science proves to be a useful tool in everyday life it cannot resolve the deepest most profound questions we have about life. This makes sense when one considers the nature of a scientific theory. As all of you college students should know it is impossible to prove scientific theory, only disprove it. Accordingly 99% of scientific thought has been disproved and the 1% that has survived has only done so presumably because it is so young and unscrutinized. Now consider the hypocrisy of philosophy. Philosophy is supposedly a pursuit of understanding, of answers, and yet throughout time all the best philosophers could never provide a single irrefutable answer and each raised innumerable question. If you guys were dumb and didnt understand the further implications I would go on about the preposterousness of academia. Instead I will suggest that you watch this http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/06/smartest-man-in-the-world-has-diarrhea-of-the-mouth/. After watching dangerous thoughts and having many insights as to the nature of human intelligence I decided to look at human intelligence in its extreme form. This clip is an interview with the smartest living man in the world. He has an IQ of 210. Im exhausted because of my early morning brood session so all I will say is that he seems just as confused, lonely, and self justifying as everybody else in this world. I must sleep now but Im excited to hear what you guys think.
My problem with the film was the way it was presented. I guess I am too burnt out by Nat Geo and History Channel standard programming where they begin dramatically, powerfully, drawing you in then revealing nothing but basic ideas and expressions of actors trying to look tortured. But I like the conclusions you drew from it - we now agree on many things. That is exactly the problem with science - what we are taught in school is only how people used to be wrong and how we are now right. Whats to stop the future from being an different? This is what makes Socrates so fucking wise and the Socratic method so important. The reason Socrates could claim wisdom was because he had the broadest possible awareness of how many different things he didn't know. He would go around asking supposedly wise people why they thought they were wise. They would tell them and then he would reveal the contradictions in their arguments, proving them unwise. This is wisdom, knowing what is not correct and why. I remember learning about 210 IQ and it just depressing the shit out of me. I read it the same night that I decided to read about child geniuses and all the amazing things that they do and rememebering how ridiculously inadequate I felt. What is tragedies relationship to all these great minds? Why does the pursuit of truth drive all of these men to suicide? I read about Silenus today, a character in Greek myth. Supposedly he was a fawn in the woods and if you captured him he would reveal you his wisdom. King Midas captured him one day and asked him to reveal his wisdom. (this is frequently refered to as The Wisdom of Silenus) 'the best thing for a man is not to be born, and if born, should die as soon as possible.' Is this what these men see? They capture a piece of the truth, learn from it and then draw the same conlusion as Silenus?
in the end it was--dramatized and focused mainly on their life rather than their philosophy
ReplyDeleteyeah I started watching it then it just seemed to dramatized.
ReplyDeletecheck out the book Godel, Escher, Bach
You guys are crazy. I didn't fall asleep last night until 3am despite my 8oclock test because this movie is so thought provoking. It proves the futility of the pursuit of fundamental truth through all mediums, whether it be math (Cantor), Logic (godel/turin), physics/science(boltzman), and theoligy (cantor). These are some of the brightest people humanity has ever seen and all them were driven to suicide when they confronted the paradoxs that you, me and the rest of the world ignore out of fear of intrapersonal intellectual dissonance. Non of them succeeded in resolving the paradoxes they observed, only legitimizing them. Here are some unexplicit implications of this movie. Science/math is a religion. According Cantor it is impossible to define or verify infinity. This means that all the internally logical conclusions made in calculus and non euclidean geometry are based on an unverifiable uncomprehendable truth, infinity. This is much like the fact that the internally logical conclusions of religion are based on the unverifiable uncomprehendable truth of the existence god. This means that saying the big bang was the beginning of the universe(manifestation of infinity principle) is equally "unscientific" as positing divine creation of the universe (manifestation of god principle). Here is the scary part, even if infinity was verifiable and we could approach it in an experimental scientific fashion it still could only be regarded as practical truth as opposed to absolute truth. This is because science itself is flawed, science, a methodical application of logic to experience, cant be held as truth either! Godel proved that certain logical statements will be false and that it will be impossible to tell which ones they are. While science proves to be a useful tool in everyday life it cannot resolve the deepest most profound questions we have about life. This makes sense when one considers the nature of a scientific theory. As all of you college students should know it is impossible to prove scientific theory, only disprove it. Accordingly 99% of scientific thought has been disproved and the 1% that has survived has only done so presumably because it is so young and unscrutinized. Now consider the hypocrisy of philosophy. Philosophy is supposedly a pursuit of understanding, of answers, and yet throughout time all the best philosophers could never provide a single irrefutable answer and each raised innumerable question. If you guys were dumb and didnt understand the further implications I would go on about the preposterousness of academia. Instead I will suggest that you watch this http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/06/smartest-man-in-the-world-has-diarrhea-of-the-mouth/. After watching dangerous thoughts and having many insights as to the nature of human intelligence I decided to look at human intelligence in its extreme form. This clip is an interview with the smartest living man in the world. He has an IQ of 210. Im exhausted because of my early morning brood session so all I will say is that he seems just as confused, lonely, and self justifying as everybody else in this world. I must sleep now but Im excited to hear what you guys think.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with the film was the way it was presented. I guess I am too burnt out by Nat Geo and History Channel standard programming where they begin dramatically, powerfully, drawing you in then revealing nothing but basic ideas and expressions of actors trying to look tortured.
ReplyDeleteBut I like the conclusions you drew from it - we now agree on many things. That is exactly the problem with science - what we are taught in school is only how people used to be wrong and how we are now right. Whats to stop the future from being an different?
This is what makes Socrates so fucking wise and the Socratic method so important. The reason Socrates could claim wisdom was because he had the broadest possible awareness of how many different things he didn't know. He would go around asking supposedly wise people why they thought they were wise. They would tell them and then he would reveal the contradictions in their arguments, proving them unwise. This is wisdom, knowing what is not correct and why.
I remember learning about 210 IQ and it just depressing the shit out of me. I read it the same night that I decided to read about child geniuses and all the amazing things that they do and rememebering how ridiculously inadequate I felt.
What is tragedies relationship to all these great minds? Why does the pursuit of truth drive all of these men to suicide? I read about Silenus today, a character in Greek myth. Supposedly he was a fawn in the woods and if you captured him he would reveal you his wisdom. King Midas captured him one day and asked him to reveal his wisdom. (this is frequently refered to as The Wisdom of Silenus) 'the best thing for a man is not to be born, and if born, should die as soon as possible.' Is this what these men see? They capture a piece of the truth, learn from it and then draw the same conlusion as Silenus?
That Silenus analogy is perfect, and it seems even more sophisticated because its from classical Greek literature.
ReplyDelete